Topic on Talk:Sparks Beans

Looking to update Sparks' lore with some stuff we've discussed, such as:

- An IRM detailing the barista travels Sparks went on, probably Vignette style.

- An entry detailing their time in Shadow Moabbey and learning under the great Smoothysgradsil

- Magi Ruiz and Avila Guzman moving into the apartment after Goodwin's departure, and their ensuing shenanigans

- Sparks learning of their impending incineration, and recruiting Magi and Avila into helping them cheat death a little.

- Sparks' friendship with their replacement Lenjamin Zhuge and the history between those two (Sparks inspired them to use they/them as well as giving them a new name).

Until more is revealed about Baristas as an entity, we will be leaving that lore as is for now.

Wow! Over a year later and I'm finally done! I've added a few more changes such as:

- Fava helping Sparks get a job with the Order instead of giving them up as a child

- Reworking how the Wandering Beans (formerly Order of the Holy Bean) operates

- Changing Sparks arrival to the team, as well as fleshing out their cafe, The Pregame Ritual

Here's a doc with the full changes. Feedback is welcomed and appreciated! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xHYK50DEkhnoHVewBWtImQVhLj-G-S1hPJSow6Ig9OE/edit?usp=sharing

I have to say, I definitely like this version of the page a lot more than what currently exists on there. I especially appreciate that Sparks being Vietnamese is elaborated on past a single mention on the page- while I was aware of them being Vietnamese, many people I talked to had no idea about it, so seeing that aspect of their character being elaborated on makes me really happy. I do have a few points to make, though:

First of all, ‘Sparks’ is listed as their nickname; do they have a given or chosen name other than that? If so, might be worth listing.

The pre-ILB section is better than it used to be, but might need to go through some revisions later on- I’m not exactly sure what’s making me feel this way right now, but I’ll get back to you if I figure out what’s pinging me about it.

I’m… pretty sure that the entire Incineration section violates wiki policy on incineration narratives full stop, though, and it’s why I thought about commenting on this talk page at all- if there were any changes that would be a priority to make, I’d probably talk about revising that entire section.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad to hear we're doing Sparks better with this! Onto your points:

I had it in mind that Sparks was given their name by their fellow traveling baristas and they took it on as their chosen name, I'll edit that section to be more clear.

Let me know if you figure out what's eating you about their pre-ilb section, I'm happy to revisit it!

I can talk to the team about the incineration stuff, but maybe we could get some clarification on what parts of this does/doesn't work for the wiki so we know where to go from here, that section of the wiki policy has always been a little unclear to me. @Inumo @Sav@Pokeylope Hey Admins! can we get some advice on incineration narratives and if this works/what doesn't?

Heyo! Confirming that this incineration narrative is within bounds; while the Hall of Flame, necromancy, the Hall Stars, etc certainly complicate the ontology of players, as far as I know we're still sticking with the guidelines established on Help:Types of Content#Incineration Narratives. We figure players don't meaningfully interact often enough with the exceptions to demand every player conform to a stricter set of rules. To go through each guideline one-by-one:

1. The story must involve fire from a Rogue Umpire. – Seems like a Rogue Ump is striking, and incinerating Beans' corporeal form. Check.
2. Incinerated players don't interact with Blaseball. – Beans is now a ghost haunting various devices, not playing Blaseball.
3. Incineration is instant. – Beans instantly enters the machine everyone made.
4. No need to tell an incineration narrative. – We can skip this one, I think.
5. The story comes to an end. – There's nothing written past the denouement of Beans' incineration, so as long as that holds true it's all right.

Feel free to ping again if you have any questions; I'm gonna unwatch this thread so I don't get notified as you work out the rest of the details of the proposal.

Huh, this is an interesting interpretation of the rules- I'd say that the existing page *does* violate both Rules 2 and 5 by implying interaction with other living players on the team post death (something that i *think* is made more explicit by lenjamin zhuge's existing page), but I suppose I was misinterpreting the intention of the rules here. Either way, since that assumed violation was why I saw need to comment in the first place, I don't think there's much more on this talk page for me to comment on. Thank you for the clarification!

@Inumo Sorry for the next post on this talk page being a direct ping to you immediately after you unfollowed, but I'm curious if there's a way that the rules regarding incineration narratives could be made a bit more clear in the future, so that we can better understand the intent of each rule and to avoid future misunderstandings of those rules?

Sandcats, I don't know that we particularly can make our intentions more explicit, especially given the limits of wikiteam time & energy. There's a reason Help:Types of Content is marked "unrevised," after all. Speaking from experience, too, there is no way to write a rule or guideline such that it won't be misinterpreted. It's currently easier for us to address these matters as they arise, given their rarity. If it helps, while Caligula Lotus and Landry Violence are cited as prime examples of non-standard incineration narratives, we also have no issues with e.g. Scrap Murphy, who was Conrad Vaughan's ghostly coach until finally resting in peace after playing on the Hall Stars. The guidelines were more implemented as a formalization of "why are we not okay with saying character A faked their death and became character B," as was once bandied about after the incineration of a player who I'm forgetting the name of.

Oh! That's good to know, I might change the wording to make their haunting a bit more clear and add a little note at the end mentioning Sparks being bummed they can't drink coffee anymore, in that case. If you get a chance, Inumo, including Scrap and Conrad, or even Sparks and Lenji here as examples on the incineration narratives page could help clear up confusion for folks in the future