Talk:Jessica Telephone/Archive

Shoplifting Discussion

Can we do something about the 'shoplifting is cool' bit, it seems sorta weird. There's a legitimate argument about shoplifting and its role in capitalism that makes the comment seem flippant. DyoGenesis (talk) 19:07, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

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The sentence 'When confronted with these allegations, Telephone merely acknowledged that she “think[s] shoplifting is a little cool sometimes.”' to avoid potentially stirring up trouble and because it did not add to the humor. Cassiterine (talk) 20:28, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

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I have waived the 24h waiting period on this particular change because, like many things associated with JT, there are strong feelings, and I wanted to help speed things along once a decision was reached. BlaseballSteve || Admin, Founder || Steven_#3235 (talk) 20:34, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Historical Jessica Telephones & the IRM

With the IRM now established as backstories for specific incarnations of JT, I thought it would be useful to consolidate iterations of the Eternal Jessica mentioned on the main article into a list for easier reference, and provide a space to theory-craft backstories for additional JTs, so people can work collaboratively on adding them to the IRM. At present, the article mentions:

Spartan Warrior Jessica Telephone (480 BCE)
Jessica Persephone (580s? BCE)
Ancient Rome Jessica Telephone (80s? BCE)
Viking Jessica (980s CE)
English Restoration Era Jessica Telephone (1680s CE)
'Classic' Jessica Telephone (1980s CE)
'Pie High' Jessica Telephone (2080s CE)
Lasers & 4-D Holograms Jessica Telephone (2380s CE)

It might be useful to state which iterations people have an interest in working on backstories for, so people don't work at cross purposes on the similar eras of JT. Likewise it would probably be best to also to submit the finished IRM blurbs onto this talk page for feedback/sensitivity reading, and also to discuss which historical eras should probably not be elaborated on further-- especially those that lend themselves to potentially problematic historical depictions-- i.e., it may be best to avoid "Viking Jessica Telephone" or "Ancient Roman Jessica Telephone" entirely. It would also be great if we could expand the scope of JTs away from their overwhelming focus on European history, but that naturally comes with its own pitfalls, and should IMO be handled with extra care. Kerascene (talk) 01:54, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Kerascene (talk) 17:35, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

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Thanks for compiling these! As a classical archaelogist, I would be willing to tackle the Roman JT entry in order to avoid problematic content. I'm thinking a Catullus-esque (minus the invectives) "poeta nova" who writes elegies to her paramour. I also think a post-apocalyptic 3480s Fury Road or Tank Girl style JT could be neat. Cassiterine (talk) 12:04, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

YES to both! Tank Girl/Furiosa JT sounds FANTASTIC. Likewise, my field is 17th/18th century history so I would love to work on 1680s JT. I'd also be interested in writing the Jessica Persephone entry, but that should definitely have input from Tigers fans since it's the period of Jessica Telephone most closely associated with her time on their team. Kerascene (talk) 12:35, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

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So who is working on Classical Jessica, like the version without all the dirtbag stuff? Is there a concentrated effort anywhere, how does one become part of it? Also I have no idea how to add a timestamped signature to this DyoGenesis (talk) 19:07, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

I volunteered to write it, but I'd like to get input from the Tigers beforehand. Kerascene (talk) 20:40, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

You can read all the basics about how to use Talk pages at Editing 101/Talk Pages, but the quick answer for signatures is four tildes. BlaseballSteve || Admin, Founder || Steven_#3235 (talk) 16:25, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Iescha Telephonium

Iescha Telephonium (Gr. Ιεσχά Τηλεφώνιον), active from 89-80 BCE, was a Roman poet from the island of Lesbos. Because she wrote poetry both in Greek and Latin, her native language is unclear, but she is considered one of the first neoteric poets to write in Latin. Her poetry was heavily inspired by native Lesbian Sappho as well as the innovative epigrammatist Callimachus.

Works

Her poetry can be largely be divided into two categories: epigrams, which are typically love poems, and epic, which often draw from mythological topics. Unlike later poets like Catullus and Horace, who tend to address their love poems to a limited number of subjects, Telephonium's poetry is addressed to countless women. Given the specificity of their characteristics, it is believed that, like Catullus, she has based these personages on historical figures with whom she may have had actual relationships.

Telephonium's epic poetry is atypical in its focus on women in mythology. In many cases, her poems about women in mythology are the only surviving accounts from those characters' perspective, such as Eurydice and Thisbe.

Telephonium is said to have written a hymn to Cybele, though such a work is not extant.

Influence

Telephonium was highly influential to the Roman poet Catullus. The nickname he uses for his girlfriend, Lesbia, is thought to be a reference both to Sappho and to Telephonium, both Lesbian poets who inspired his work. Catullus also seems to have been driven to trans activism through his reverence for Telephonium, working closely with the Gallae, trans priestesses of Cybele, to compose the sympathetic poem 63 about Attis, and issuing a warning to his friend Caecilius in poem 35 that he should not publish a poem with transphobic elements about the Lady of Dindyma (another name for Cybele), instead directing him to revise his poem after also consulting with the Gallae.

Telephonium's influence appears to have waned by the time of Ovid, whose misogynistic narratives draw little from Telephonium's verses.

Blaseball Play

Despite his being one of the few fluent Latin speakers around, Telephonium has had little interest in holding conversation with Nicholas Mora. They appear to have spoken briefly upon her first appearance from the phone booth, but now she seems to intentionally avoid him. Even though she has spent much less time around English speakers, she has picked up considerably more of the language than Mora, who has lived among them full time for almost a decade.

Hi friends! I just wrote this little ditty up. I'd love for criticism or ideas if anyone has them. Cassiterine (talk) 01:23, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

I have nothing to say except that I love this Caitlpigeon (talk) 02:21, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Pie High CW conversation

(Administration note: I added a heading here to make sure this is findable for other users. Nesblitt || Admin || nesbitt#1991 (talk) 20:10, 6 October 2020 (UTC))

Hey all, This is more something about the IRM page "Pie High Jessica Telephone", subheading: "Drugs and Alcohol" This a fandom with an indeterminate amount of very influencable minors in it. I personally think this section should be changed to either explicitly state that these are a bad thing, or removed entirely. Yes, it's part of the universe that drugs (like marijuana) and alcohol exist, but it should not be inserted without purpose. Vaping, smoking, drugs, and alcohol are harmful to one's body, and playing an entire section about drugs as a form of relatable comedy is not a good thing to do with an audience that may not know the risks of such things. Also maybe extend this sentiment to the "Crime" portion as well? I'm not saying to erase the interpretation, I'm saying this because as much as "Dominic Marijuana" is a thing, focus was never drawn to him being a weed smoker, in fact, it's less relevant than his support of Taco Bell and Whiteclaw, despite it being his name. Even Randall has only one reference to drugs at all. Art does depict them both with a joint often, but my point is it's not a focus of the lore on the wiki. CrabParra (talk)

Hi, thank you for bringing this to our attention. Our policy is generally one that will match the Blaseball discord server's rules. These rules were only finalized two days ago, so we are still working on how they apply to the wiki. To give a brief summary: it's expected that this content will conform somewhat to PG-13. Explicit sexual material and hard drug use will not be permitted. Given the content of the game (including players and subject matter), recreational substance use that is otherwise legal in most of the territories covered by the game (such as marijuana, tobacco, nicotine vapor, and alcohol) is permitted with the use of a content warning. I will be adding that warning shortly. Likewise, we are in the process of finalizing a policy on wiki-wide content warning topics and other non-allowed topics. This information will most likely be displayed on the front page and possibly on its own dedicated wiki page.

With regard to minor crime: it is untenable to forbid topics involving minor crime in a game with a team called the Charleston Shoe Thieves. I imagine that topics involving crime will be part of the wiki-wide content warnings for the reasons you brought up, but we have already adjusted the crime section of this page once following a broad discussion and we feel that what is there now is perfectly acceptable. The Jessica Telephone portrayed here is one who you would expect to react with the attitude of a flippant teenager. Users who are old enough to be a part of the blaseball community as defined in the Game Band's and Fandom's Terms of Service are aware enough to know this, and we do not feel that a change is necessary. Thank you again for bringing this to our attention. Nesblitt || Admin || nesbitt#1991 (talk) 20:10, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

I feel like this misses my general point somewhat [Re: Drugs and Alcohol Section]. CW are appreciated and a good way to protect the community, but my point is that it shouldn't have positive and comical attention drawn to it without purpose. With Dominic Marijuana, for example, under subheading "Survivor's Guilt", Dominic was almost incinerated for smoking on the field, this is portrayed as a bad thing. Quote: "There is wide speculation that the umpire had taken umbrage with Marijuana's habit of smoking on field." This section also doesn't say he's smoking any elicit substances, however implied it may be given the character. The way the content under the subheader "Drugs and Alcohol" is made out to be, is playing off substance use as inherently "fun" or "cool" in and of itself. (Which I'm not saying they can't be fun to use, but it's still not the implication we want to give that they are "Cool" or "Fun" all on their own) [Side note; DMT is a powerful and possibly lethal hallucinogen that is illegal to buy, own, or sell. This is, granted, information I had to look up on DMT, but I think it still holds weight.]

My point, to state it clearly and succinctly, is that there is a massive difference between drinking and having fun in a safe environment doing karaoke that leads to an interesting heartwarming moment where a character sings an impromptu duet with a teammate they are sore with because they forgot the words, and shotgunning beers because it's cool. CrabParra (talk)

Community-generated blaseball lore is not a text concerned with judging the morality of characters' actions. All that this section does is portray this particular instance of Jessica Telephone as the kind of person who would shotgun beers because she thinks it's cool. If there is widespread community agreement that this interpretation of Jessica Telephone should be changed, it can be changed. You are also welcome to propose your story of heartfelt karaoke and write it somewhere using the policies outlined here. Nesblitt || Admin || nesbitt#1991 (talk) 22:33, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

As written, this section of the article doesn't actually... endorse or even reference actual drug use? It clearly shows that Jessica Telephone actually has no knowledge of recreational drugs but pretends she does to seem cool, which is in-keeping with DBJT as portrayed in the rest of the IRM entry. I agree with placing a CW for references of the recreational drugs themselves, but asking for its outright removal is an overreaction. Kerascene (talk) 13:46, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Quote: "Dirtbag JT was frequently associated with tales of drug use and other altered mind states." This is the opening line of the section. This implicates that she often uses substances, not necessarily always mistaking them like is said later on in the section she has done "according to local Philadelphia folklore". Saying "She's frequently associated" is very different and carries more weight than the speculative nature that "folklore" has as a writing connotation.

Also, to more plainly express the kind of edits I was meaning, the section says "She reportedly used katanas to shotgun beers", which, to an influenceable minor, may be seen a "cool" action, as to many katanas are seen as cool. I offer a change that gets across the social ineptitude the IRM page is trying to bring across, while not emulating irresponsible drinking habits. Proposed Change: "She reportedly attempted to use katanas to shotgun beers. This act failed miserably and caused others in the room to be annoyed at being drenched with what was once in the cans." Instead of the current text.

Finally, no one has even recognized that even including mentions of DMT goes against the idea of "recreational substance use that is otherwise legal" as mentioned above, as DMT is an illegal and harmful substance. Yes it isn't being used in the section, but we as a community, should avoid possibly introducing to minors an illegal substance through the medium of Blaseball, which is trying to keep things PG-13. CrabParra (talk)

The thing is, that's not what happened. She used the katana to shotgun the beers, and she did it successfully, with grace and aplomb. Everyone who witnessed it was impressed. Maybe if a responsible adult had seen what was going on, they would've put a stop to it, but that's not what happened. Sometimes kids get away with doing things that they shouldn't. -Hayley Kpaxxxxx (talk)

Popular perception of katanas since the 2010s, when the first mainstream anime boom in America ended, is principally that an interest in them among "weeb" subculture is dorky as hell, as can be seen from the "While you were out partying, I studied the blade" memes which gained prominence to mock sword guys in the mid 2010s. The act of shotgunning a beer with a katana is uncool enough on its own, and should be just as clear to a minor that this behaviour should not be replicated without specifying that the attempt backfired spectactularly.

As for the drug references? Again, they're clearly there to signify cluelessness, not to endorse the use of substances which may be illegal in the principle territories of the game. The article goes into no depth about the purported psychedelic effects of DMT, how its administered, or its availability. It's just a joke about Jessica Telephone trying to sound knowledgeable about a subject she clearly has no experience in. Compare the presentation of DMT in this wiki article to the "Machine Elves" segment of Waypoint Radio where Austin Walker describes Terrance McKenna's 1965 experiment into the effects of DMT here, which goes intricately in-depth into the psychedelic effects and presents them unanimously as cool and interesting. The worst thing a hypothetical minor who ignored the content warnings and read this section of the IRM could be driven to do is try Yerba mate. Kerascene (talk) 18:55, 7 October 2020 (UTC)