Topic on Talk:Goodwin Morin

Goodwin's godslaying group was intentionally left vague when we first came up with her lore, but that can lead to some issues in regards to interpretation, so I'm proposing this rewrite of her intro paragraph:

Goodwin Morin stands at an impressive 7'3. She claims to be from a close knit group of god slayers from Dark Seattle. While she was initially secretive about the group, she has since opened up more about them during her time on this side of the gumwall. Formerly known as the God Ragers, this group was made up of people from all walks of life who decided at one point or another to dedicate their lives to taking down gods, primarily the kind that cropped up due to humanity's hubris. She reports the group being responsible for taking down the gods of logging and internet trolling, among others. The God Ragers would meet their demise when they agreed to help take down the Sun, as its ever present fixture was proving detrimental. Details of the acquisition are scarce, but after Morin pierced the sun with an arrow, the Corporation took control of the God Ragers, Morin included.

Let me know what you think and if there's anything that should be added or changed!

While I'm happy to see an effort is being made to address the issues with Goodwin Morin at all, there are numerous issues with Goodwin that are fundamental to her character, and still remain unaddressed in this rewrite:

• Intentional or not, Goodwin Morin still harkens to the old "savage spear-wielding native" stereotype. This trope has frequently been used to dehumanize indigenous peoples in the past, and again, intentional or not, the resemblance here is strong enough for this to be a notable concern.
• Even with the clarification, Goodwin is a member of a fictional tribe that, to put it lightly, is not based on the lived experiences of actual indigenous peoples. If anything, I feel the rewrite only serves to reinforce this.
• Generally, the whole "Kill All Gods, and I Mean All Gods" schtick is based on a very white, Christian-centric view of religion. While for a mostly-white audience that has been oppressed by the Christian church, this viewpoint can be liberating, it reaches uncomfortable territory when applied to the actual religious practices of PoC, given there's a long history of destruction of nonwhite belief systems by white, culturally-Christian individuals. Making this a fundamental part of the lore for an indigenous character especially is careless, at best.

Now, I am not the person to decide what should be done with Goodwin. I am white, and I am not a member of the Garages community. But the sentiment I've seen from the BIPOC in the Blaseball community boils down to "the current main interpretation of Goodwin is a fundamentally flawed character that no amount of rewrites can save, and is better off being scrapped entirely to create a new character from scratch."

I don't mean to start drama here, but no amount of authorial intent or love from the fandom is going to change the fact that Goodwin's established characterization is firmly rooted in racial stereotypes and uncomfortable implications, and at that point, you just gotta start over. And no, don't delegate the existing version to an IRM, either. It's unsalvageable, and best not left around where people can see it.

Hi! For the record, I am a garages fan of color. It's my understanding that you're conflating two different interpretations of Goodwin Morin - one in which she killed the sun in Dark Seattle, and one by waveridden (IF-3.703) in which she is Indigenous which is to my knowledge not connected to Dark Seattle at all. These are separate interpretations.

To clarify further: to my knowledge, there are zero indigenous interpretations of Goodwin Morin among garages fans where she wields a spear and kills gods. It was always very heavily emphasized in garages chats to avoid the spear-wielding native woman AND the magical native woman tropes.

I apologize on behalf of the team for the harm done to BIPOC in the community by this miscommunication. I don't believe that it's necessary to delete the entire lore, which many people of color worked on and care about, due to a misportrayal of the character. I do agree that "kill all gods" is something that has gone a lot further than its original intention (which was to my knoweldge about killing the gods in Blaseball) and is something that ought to be reworked to be less hostile to real life religions. But I do not think conflating two different character concepts into a racist interpretation that the creators of one concept were always intentionally trying to avoid means that that entire concept needs to be deleted.

The only solution I can think of that keeps the interpretation and avoids the racist connotation of a savage spear-wielding native is switching to a full-page IRM, so that waveridden's Snoqualmie interpretation is not placed directly below the explanation of killing the sun, making them seem connected.

I'm going to ping the mods in now because I want to know what they think should happen to the lore on this page. @Nesblitt @Inumo @Sav

Hello Apricots and other contributors! Thank you for your respectful critiquing, it seems like implementing the IRM clarifies the relevant points and provides a solution acceptable to those already in the discussion. Congratulations, you did not need us :) While I appreciate that this critique concerned some sensitive topics, it appears to have been handled courteously from all sides. As we work towards making the Wiki more self-sufficient and community driven, please consider mod pings more of a last resort than a first. We are around to help but stepping back from our previous level of involvement in basically all "disputes." Consequently, in situations like this, feel free to attempt to reach and implement a solution without us as long as all parties are comfortable with the tone of engagement. This is a great example of that having happened and we look forward to this being more the rule than the exception as Blaseball ramps back up. I also recommend our page on Critiquing Proposals to all contributors as a great set of assumptions and tools to internalize for effective collaboration.

From here, I would recommend a separate Talk Page post specifying the format the new IRM will use, and to be helpful, a recap of the most salient points of this discussion. Thank you all for helping make the Blaseball Wiki a vibrant and safe community!

Let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

-Sav

Thank you!!! I said my reply below before I saw yours! Sorry about that!!!

No need to be sorry!

Hi! Thank you for the additional clarification. I was unaware that these were two different versions of the character that were developed independently, and knowing more about the process of how she was developed helps a lot. I think the page would benefit from more clarification that these are separate interpretations, and I agree that conversion to a full-page IRM would help a lot in that regard.

As I stated in my previous post, I am definitely not the authority for making calls on this character, and I'm happy to hear a Garages fan of color giving their input. I'm definitely willing to trust your judgement more than my own. I have still heard enough concerns about Goodwin from POC in the community that I feel it still may be good to give a second look at Goodwin's lore (and I know the Lift have been planning a lorejam on their sidecord for Sunday!) but whether these concerns are a direct result of the lack of clarity or something else I'm personally not aware of, I'm not sure.

Again, thank you for the clarification, and I apologize if my previous judgement was misplaced.

Yes it seems that the partial IRM has caused a lot of confusion in that regard. I'll propose switching to full page in another talk page post so that the edits to this Goodwin interp's background in this post don't get buried.

I encourage any other BIPOC fans with concerns about Goodwin (or any lore, really) to bring them up on talk pages! I think it's important that concerns be addressed and that racist lore be removed, and for me at least it's easier to address concerns when they are written out in such a way that requires thought out response, rather than gut reactions on discord 😅

Hi! I just want to say that she was, as far as I remember, presented as from a "godkilling tribe" during the Lotus-Goodwin jam. I could be remembering wrong, though?

I'd also like to point out this bit from the "farms of greater Seattle" page:

"The farm is owned and operated by one Goodwin Morning, a seven-foot-two woman who bears a remarkable resemblance to known Seattle Garages base-stealing legend and godslayer Goodwin Morin. Morning is a member of the Snoqualmie nation and often works with local food pantries to make fresh produce available to those living in food deserts." which was created in December by what seems to be a Garages fan.