Talk:Jessica Telephone/Archive
After reviewing the edit history, I am removing the flat earth joke. It was a drive-by edit not made by someone who collaborated with the Pies discord community and shouldn't be on here. Nesblitt (talk) 19:15, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
Tone and Content
Not to be that guy, but can we talk about editing pretty much everything under "Peanut Shells and Rap God?"
On the shallower end, it doesn't fit with the tone/flow of the wiki. It's very prosaic and sounds more like fanfiction than the 'faux Wikipedia' aesthetic of everything else. Fanfiction is cool, but there's a style guide for a reason. Also, none of her previous characterization/content slots in with the goofy vape skateboard meme thing? It's funny, but it's out of the blue and doesn't match the rest of the page. Can we add that stuff to any of the 20 other players who have vape bro energy? Or even to players who don't have a lot of personality already?
The main thing that bothered me though is the similarly out of the blue dirtbag thing. Nothing so far would suggest that she's awful to her partners/women in general, so it seems incongruous with everything else. More importantly, there's a persistent and harmful stereotype in media characterizing trans lesbians as abusers/dirtbags/sleezy, and this seems like it's leaning very far in that direction. Not that trans lesbians can't be flawed characters of course, but in that particular way it falls into the same camp as having a black father be a deadbeat dad or having a Jewish character's fatal flaw be greed. In a vacuum it's okay, but altogether the implication isn't. Good.
I don't want to say that it's intentionally malicious, but I think that it's close enough to a damaging caricature that I uh. Would not want to touch that area. So while of course I'm not the King Of The Wiki (I made an account just for this post, actually) as a trans lesbian I'd like to beg you folks to rework this. (from Quickfix00)
- Thanks for starting the conversation, this is a good opening. Just a small thing, please sign off your posts with four tildes (~~~~) which will post your username for easy identification. You can indent messages with colons, one for each indent you wish to make. BlaseballSteve || Admin, Founder || Steven_#3235 (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
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- So the thing that is not necessarily clear here is that the "dirtbag" conception of JT is not in the abuser/sleazy/deadbeat way. "Dirtbag JT" as conceived is specifically a dirtbag teen. She wore a tuxedo t-shirt and JNCO jeans to Hlomecoming. She dropped two No-Doz into a can of jolt and calls it SKATE JUICE. She's into Eminem and Mindless Self Indulgence. She vapes and skateboards wherever she's not allowed to, and she stays up til 4 AM breaking glass bottles against the side of a barn. Maybe we could stand to make this vision of Jess a bit clearer in this section, but this is something that we [the Philly Pies segment of the official Blaseball discord, who incidentally came up with the conception of JT as a time-travelling poly trans lesbian in the first place] have been workshopping for several weeks now and feel very strongly about. Something we have been considering, but haven't quite nailed down yet, is potentially adding a section to JT's page that provides details about her different 80s decade iterations. Dirtbag JT is (tentatively) the 2080s iteration. Maybe you feel more connected to her 1980s iteration. That said - we also want to avoid making an infinitely expanding list of different JT iterations that anyone can fill in with whatever, because they're not actually alternate versions. We feel very strongly that these are all the same person, but at different points in her life. Anyway, I hope this helps you understand where we're coming from, and I strongly encourage you to come to the discord and collaborate with us! We're very friendly and love welcoming in new people (and we have quite a few trans lesbians FWIW, myself included). Like you, we are not the Kings of the Wiki, and we are very invested in coming up with a solution to this that makes everybody happy. --Hayley Kpaxxxxx (talk) 16:53, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
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- Aha! Yeah, I definitely do understand where you're coming from now, I didn't get it from just reading the wiki. I will totally go talk to you folks on the discord, and now that I understand your ideas/changes I do really like them. I just want them to be less confusing if they're also confusing people other than me lmao. Thank you for taking the time to explain! Quickfix00 (talk) 17:23, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
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- The problem I see is that what you describe and how that particular section is written are not the same thing. 'Dirtbag' is not being used for code as 'haha look at what a goofy skater kid teenaged jerk she was', it's being used as 'ah, look at the inherent scumminess of JT as she always was and has been, now on full display'. To the extent that she is actively causing problems which her relationships by being that way and then actively refusing to change or improve. At the very least the wording is not well phrased.
- I don't think that saying it's just a different iteration/different era of the character really cuts it with the page as it stands and with how it's written is a pretty sharp veer from what had already been established. Why is it necessary and essential to include? Why is it something that is felt strongly about? Even if it's 'lore you came up with in the first place' it's now established and ingrained and this subsequently damages the consistency and perception of the character. What is wrong with JT just being the cool older sister to the league and time travelling lesbian which most everyone seems to love as an interpretation?
Izzyclu (talk) 17:26, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
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